Comments on: Benefits of Smaller Design Firms http://corvusart.com/blog/2009/07/16/benefits-of-smaller-design-firms/ San Luis Obispo Web Design Firm, Grahpic Design, Graphic Art and Corporate Identity Thu, 02 Sep 2010 08:01:25 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: CDS http://corvusart.com/blog/2009/07/16/benefits-of-smaller-design-firms/comment-page-1/#comment-584 CDS Mon, 30 Nov 2009 20:33:26 +0000 http://corvusart.com/blog/?p=320#comment-584 As for how design companies are able to charge a minimum of $10,000, I think it really all depends on the targeted clientele of the company. For the price, they are likely looking only for large projects that make use of their specilized team. I have also worked for an enterprise design firm like this that charged around $100,000 for their projects. These were not mere websites, though. They were massive online marketing solutions involving flash developers, PHP coders, cold fusion experts, graphic designers, an art director, web producers, marketers, sales team, company representatives, etc. They were truly providing a huge production with a ton of overhead that warranted the huge price. Personally, the projects were nothing that a smaller company (of outstanding quality) could have produced for a quarter of the price and with twice the grace, but that's neither here nor there. With my company, for example, I have found what works for me financially and ethically. My targeted clientele is not Sony or Microsoft; it's mom and pop stores, art galleries, online retail, photographers, etc.... I don't have to gouge people to stay afloat, but in turn I don't accept any gigantic enterprise projects that would warrant an equally gigantic price tag. Again, I think it all comes down to targeted clientele. But yeah, charging $10,000 for the typically small to medium sized websites most commonly acquired by design studios is a bit high :) As for how design companies are able to charge a minimum of $10,000, I think it really all depends on the targeted clientele of the company. For the price, they are likely looking only for large projects that make use of their specilized team. I have also worked for an enterprise design firm like this that charged around $100,000 for their projects. These were not mere websites, though. They were massive online marketing solutions involving flash developers, PHP coders, cold fusion experts, graphic designers, an art director, web producers, marketers, sales team, company representatives, etc. They were truly providing a huge production with a ton of overhead that warranted the huge price. Personally, the projects were nothing that a smaller company (of outstanding quality) could have produced for a quarter of the price and with twice the grace, but that’s neither here nor there. With my company, for example, I have found what works for me financially and ethically. My targeted clientele is not Sony or Microsoft; it’s mom and pop stores, art galleries, online retail, photographers, etc…. I don’t have to gouge people to stay afloat, but in turn I don’t accept any gigantic enterprise projects that would warrant an equally gigantic price tag. Again, I think it all comes down to targeted clientele. But yeah, charging $10,000 for the typically small to medium sized websites most commonly acquired by design studios is a bit high :)

]]> By: CDS http://corvusart.com/blog/2009/07/16/benefits-of-smaller-design-firms/comment-page-1/#comment-583 CDS Mon, 30 Nov 2009 20:13:38 +0000 http://corvusart.com/blog/?p=320#comment-583 Hi Rob, thanks for the comments. I know exactly what you mean about the unrealistic job expectations found in so many position descriptions. Although it is not always the case, I think when it happens it stems mostly from the fact that the managment does not fully understand what is actually involved in producing websites. I am talking about large name brand corporations that need a web development department, but who are not web design companies themselves. I have found that the only people who truly understand the intracacies of web development are web developers themselves. You are so right about how sometimes they try to disperse the responsibilities among others in the company who have no web design experience at all. I've experienced that first hand. I was laid off from a large, well known company in San Jose several years ago, and all of my duties were given to a woman who had absolutely zero knowledge of web design. It was eye-opening to see a renowned engineer (at least within our company) making upwards of $150k/yr struggle with Javascript and HTML. It's always nice when a company has a well-formed web design department, with a lead designer who understands the inner workings of web development. Then they can better organize a team, however small, of qualified persons to handle each requirement. Like you said, Flash is not HTML and CSS is not PHP. But until there is a licensing system put into place that accurately describes the functions of a web designer, and weeds out illegitimate practitioners, the real function of a designer is completely open to interpretation. I would be so happy if it were required to have a license or certificate of some sort to call oneself a web designer. This would set rules for hiring, and realistic expectations from potential employers. Particularly if there were categories defining a Flash Developer, Web Designer, PHP Programmer, etc... I think the unrealistic expectations of some employers is a contributing factor to the large number of freelancer designers in the world :) Hi Rob, thanks for the comments. I know exactly what you mean about the unrealistic job expectations found in so many position descriptions. Although it is not always the case, I think when it happens it stems mostly from the fact that the managment does not fully understand what is actually involved in producing websites. I am talking about large name brand corporations that need a web development department, but who are not web design companies themselves. I have found that the only people who truly understand the intracacies of web development are web developers themselves. You are so right about how sometimes they try to disperse the responsibilities among others in the company who have no web design experience at all. I’ve experienced that first hand. I was laid off from a large, well known company in San Jose several years ago, and all of my duties were given to a woman who had absolutely zero knowledge of web design. It was eye-opening to see a renowned engineer (at least within our company) making upwards of $150k/yr struggle with Javascript and HTML.

It’s always nice when a company has a well-formed web design department, with a lead designer who understands the inner workings of web development. Then they can better organize a team, however small, of qualified persons to handle each requirement.

Like you said, Flash is not HTML and CSS is not PHP. But until there is a licensing system put into place that accurately describes the functions of a web designer, and weeds out illegitimate practitioners, the real function of a designer is completely open to interpretation. I would be so happy if it were required to have a license or certificate of some sort to call oneself a web designer. This would set rules for hiring, and realistic expectations from potential employers. Particularly if there were categories defining a Flash Developer, Web Designer, PHP Programmer, etc…

I think the unrealistic expectations of some employers is a contributing factor to the large number of freelancer designers in the world :)

]]> By: Rob http://corvusart.com/blog/2009/07/16/benefits-of-smaller-design-firms/comment-page-1/#comment-582 Rob Mon, 30 Nov 2009 10:02:24 +0000 http://corvusart.com/blog/?p=320#comment-582 I thought I would chime in again if you don't mind. One thing that really bothers me about big corporations especially the design and web industry is job expectations. I cannot tell you how many times I've been in an interview or have sifted through web design jobs on job boards to find employers asking for dozens and dozens of programming language requirements!! Please explain this to me, because it makes absolutely no sense! I've talked to other friends of mine who are web developers--they have told me that their company fired their part-time crew because of the poor economy and now expect their full-time staff to learn EVERY programming language. This is ridiculous! I have yet to meet a web designer that works or is fluent in EVERY single programming language known to mankind. We work with specific programming languages and often it would take many years to learn all of the intricacies with each and every programming language. HTML is nothing like Flash, just like CSS is nothing like PHP. It would be like me applying for a music design position at a University and the college saying..."We'd like you to be proficient in EVERY single instrument." That is impossible. Vladimir Horowitz was an amazing classical concert pianist...he excelled in that specific field. The bottom line in my opinion...is that many corporations have way too many job expectations. We can't possibly play the piano and play 10 other instruments and be proficient in those too. Now, I realize that instruments and programming languages are two separate things, but regardless...the job requirements in the design field are ridiculous!! I thought I would chime in again if you don’t mind.

One thing that really bothers me about big corporations especially the design and web industry is job expectations. I cannot tell you how many times I’ve been in an interview or have sifted through web design jobs on job boards to find employers asking for dozens and dozens of programming language requirements!!

Please explain this to me, because it makes absolutely no sense! I’ve talked to other friends of mine who are web developers–they have told me that their company fired their part-time crew because of the poor economy and now expect their full-time staff to learn EVERY programming language.

This is ridiculous! I have yet to meet a web designer that works or is fluent in EVERY single programming language known to mankind. We work with specific programming languages and often it would take many years to learn all of the intricacies with each and every programming language. HTML is nothing like Flash, just like CSS is nothing like PHP.

It would be like me applying for a music design position at a University and the college saying…”We’d like you to be proficient in EVERY single instrument.”

That is impossible. Vladimir Horowitz was an amazing classical concert pianist…he excelled in that specific field.

The bottom line in my opinion…is that many corporations have way too many job expectations. We can’t possibly play the piano and play 10 other instruments and be proficient in those too. Now, I realize that instruments and programming languages are two separate things, but regardless…the job requirements in the design field are ridiculous!!

]]> By: Rob http://corvusart.com/blog/2009/07/16/benefits-of-smaller-design-firms/comment-page-1/#comment-581 Rob Mon, 30 Nov 2009 09:42:23 +0000 http://corvusart.com/blog/?p=320#comment-581 Hello, This is a GREAT post about the Benefits of Working with Smaller Design Firms. As a web designer and developer myself, I've seen a LOT of mediocre and poor websites! Corvus Design Studio definitely pushes the envelope and delivers beautiful websites that are coded well. I do agree that working with a smaller company can have more benefits. With smaller businesses, you feel like you are a part of a team, and not just a factory worker pushing Skittles down an assembly line. Another benefit of owning a small company is to avoid the politics that many big corporations face. On another note...I've seen a few web companies who have these "Get a Quote" pages and in the drop down menu on budget, I saw one company with a smaller budget option of $10,000. You couldn't select a website for under $10,000! Good grief! Honestly....how do these companies think they can survive in this poor economy by charging $10,000 for a website? I'm sure many who do charge this amount are not in business! Times are tough and people don't have a lot of income right now. I am aware that Flash, After Effects, Maya, 3Ds Max are popular state of the art applications, but just because you have an impressive application like Flash, doesn't mean that people should jack up the price! That's my opinion! Hello,

This is a GREAT post about the Benefits of Working with Smaller Design Firms. As a web designer and developer myself, I’ve seen a LOT of mediocre and poor websites!

Corvus Design Studio definitely pushes the envelope and delivers beautiful websites that are coded well.

I do agree that working with a smaller company can have more benefits. With smaller businesses, you feel like you are a part of a team, and not just a factory worker pushing Skittles down an assembly line. Another benefit of owning a small company is to avoid the politics that many big corporations face.

On another note…I’ve seen a few web companies who have these “Get a Quote” pages and in the drop down menu on budget, I saw one company with a smaller budget option of $10,000. You couldn’t select a website for under $10,000! Good grief!

Honestly….how do these companies think they can survive in this poor economy by charging $10,000 for a website? I’m sure many who do charge this amount are not in business! Times are tough and people don’t have a lot of income right now.

I am aware that Flash, After Effects, Maya, 3Ds Max are popular state of the art applications, but just because you have an impressive application like Flash, doesn’t mean that people should jack up the price!

That’s my opinion!

]]> By: CDS http://corvusart.com/blog/2009/07/16/benefits-of-smaller-design-firms/comment-page-1/#comment-575 CDS Sat, 14 Nov 2009 02:58:24 +0000 http://corvusart.com/blog/?p=320#comment-575 Thanks for the comments, Daren. I don't necessarily agree with you about larger firms having more experienced or more educated employees though. The issue of quality one that applies to any business, regardless of size. I don't think experience and education are defining characteristic that differentiate large and small firms. Of course there are exceptions to all of the rules, but a lot of smaller companies are started by seasoned designers who have worked in the field and even in larger firms (like you and me). I think that there is an unfortunate stigma attached to smaller firms that implies that they somehow are not as experienced or able to produce the same quality work as a larger firm. And that is really unfortunate. My only point is that potential clients should be aware that smaller does not equal lesser quality. Thanks for the comments, Daren. I don’t necessarily agree with you about larger firms having more experienced or more educated employees though. The issue of quality one that applies to any business, regardless of size. I don’t think experience and education are defining characteristic that differentiate large and small firms. Of course there are exceptions to all of the rules, but a lot of smaller companies are started by seasoned designers who have worked in the field and even in larger firms (like you and me). I think that there is an unfortunate stigma attached to smaller firms that implies that they somehow are not as experienced or able to produce the same quality work as a larger firm. And that is really unfortunate. My only point is that potential clients should be aware that smaller does not equal lesser quality.

]]> By: Daren http://corvusart.com/blog/2009/07/16/benefits-of-smaller-design-firms/comment-page-1/#comment-574 Daren Sat, 14 Nov 2009 00:30:47 +0000 http://corvusart.com/blog/?p=320#comment-574 I agree with the majority of the points you are making here, having a similar experience of working within a large agency and then deciding to go on my own. For some (larger) clients, however, a larger firm provides them the benefit of producing more work in a given time frame, i.e. smaller studios just can't produce the same volume in the same amount of time. Also, many times the larger studios provide staff that are much more experienced business people in general, from an analytical or educational standpoint; hence the larger fees. Some clients can't afford the luxury of time when bringing a product to market, for example, so they choose the larger firm that achieve the results they need in the smallest amount of time. I think some advertising agencies, and design and marketing firms in general, thrive on this principal though, - sacrificing quality of design/user experience for the sake of sheer volume and profit. I think ultimately it is about finding the right clients who understand the value good design brings and are willing to take the necessary time to bring good design ideas to fruition. I think that for larger clients with larger gross revenues, however, the difference between a 50K website and a 25K website, for example, doesn't mean that much to them. That is why it is advantageous for us, as business owners, to try to discuss expectations and budget with the decision makers, and tailor the estimate and proposal accordingly and on an individual basis, according to the size of the company and their gross revenues. I agree with the majority of the points you are making here, having a similar experience of working within a large agency and then deciding to go on my own.

For some (larger) clients, however, a larger firm provides them the benefit of producing more work in a given time frame, i.e. smaller studios just can’t produce the same volume in the same amount of time. Also, many times the larger studios provide staff that are much more experienced business people in general, from an analytical or educational standpoint; hence the larger fees. Some clients can’t afford the luxury of time when bringing a product to market, for example, so they choose the larger firm that achieve the results they need in the smallest amount of time. I think some advertising agencies, and design and marketing firms in general, thrive on this principal though, – sacrificing quality of design/user experience for the sake of sheer volume and profit.

I think ultimately it is about finding the right clients who understand the value good design brings and are willing to take the necessary time to bring good design ideas to fruition.

I think that for larger clients with larger gross revenues, however, the difference between a 50K website and a 25K website, for example, doesn’t mean that much to them. That is why it is advantageous for us, as business owners, to try to discuss expectations and budget with the decision makers, and tailor the estimate and proposal accordingly and on an individual basis, according to the size of the company and their gross revenues.

]]> By: test http://corvusart.com/blog/2009/07/16/benefits-of-smaller-design-firms/comment-page-1/#comment-518 test Mon, 27 Jul 2009 14:24:53 +0000 http://corvusart.com/blog/?p=320#comment-518 super !! super !!

]]> By: CDS http://corvusart.com/blog/2009/07/16/benefits-of-smaller-design-firms/comment-page-1/#comment-516 CDS Wed, 22 Jul 2009 06:58:02 +0000 http://corvusart.com/blog/?p=320#comment-516 Thanks Courtney! Cool website by the way. I love the bluish color at the bottom. That is my new favorite color :) Thanks Courtney! Cool website by the way. I love the bluish color at the bottom. That is my new favorite color :)

]]> By: Courtney http://corvusart.com/blog/2009/07/16/benefits-of-smaller-design-firms/comment-page-1/#comment-514 Courtney Sun, 19 Jul 2009 18:58:02 +0000 http://corvusart.com/blog/?p=320#comment-514 Hi Jessica and CDS! I first saw your web site featured on Best-Designs and instantly fell in love with it. You are certainly a firm that I admire and will continue to watch and find inspiration in. I've also documented the benefits of a small firm as opposed to a larger one on my web site, though probably not as eloquent as you have done here. I've been telling my clients and friends for a while now that because I'm a freelancer, do work from home, that the cost to do business with me is much less than with a larger firm, with lots of office bureaucracy. Great post, and great work. Hi Jessica and CDS!
I first saw your web site featured on Best-Designs and instantly fell in love with it. You are certainly a firm that I admire and will continue to watch and find inspiration in.

I’ve also documented the benefits of a small firm as opposed to a larger one on my web site, though probably not as eloquent as you have done here. I’ve been telling my clients and friends for a while now that because I’m a freelancer, do work from home, that the cost to do business with me is much less than with a larger firm, with lots of office bureaucracy.

Great post, and great work.

]]> By: CDS http://corvusart.com/blog/2009/07/16/benefits-of-smaller-design-firms/comment-page-1/#comment-511 CDS Sun, 19 Jul 2009 02:44:27 +0000 http://corvusart.com/blog/?p=320#comment-511 Thanks for the comments, Snarky! Thanks for the comments, Snarky!

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